Frågor för en Amazonmaster

[helsoffa]

Sorry, but these are in English.
If anyone knows the answer to some of these perplexing Amazon questions I have, I'd be very impressed and much obliged.

1. Was there a special emblem for the early 220's before the "shield" type emblems were used? If there is and you have a picture, I'd love to see it.

2. Does anyone know if there are differences between the 1957 Amazons and the later Amazons as far as what the wheel trim rings and rain gutters were made out of? I know they tended to replace stainless steel with aluminium, but were these parts always aluminium?

3. There was a B18 emblem on the grille and on the trunk, but I've only seen B20 emblems on the grille. Was there a B20 emblem on the trunk?

4. What are the differences between the early white turn signals and the later white turn signals used after chassis 21,000? Again, pictures would be wonderful.

5. Were there any Amazons stock from the factory with mudguards on the rear fenders like on PV's?

6. This one might seem silly, but does anyone know of any changes in the tail light of Amazons around 1967? Something about paint on the inside walls?

[ClassicVolvoShop]

1. Was there a special emblem for the early 220's before the "shield" type emblems were used? If there is and you have a picture, I'd love to see it.

Yes, there was a -VOLVO-221- emblem, just like the -VOLVO-121- and the -VOLVO-122S- emblems in the period 1962-64.
The -VOLVO-221- was only used on the 1962 model - then it was replaced with the sedan ones.

2. Does anyone know if there are differences between the 1957 Amazons and the later Amazons as far as what the wheel trim rings and rain gutters were made out of? I know they tended to replace stainless steel with aluminium, but were these parts always aluminium?

No differences there - side molds/trim changed, but not wheel trim and rain gutter molds.

3. There was a B18 emblem on the grille and on the trunk, but I've only seen B20 emblems on the grille. Was there a B20 emblem on the trunk?

No.

4. What are the differences between the early white turn signals and the later white turn signals used after chassis 21,000? Again, pictures would be wonderful.

The differ completely - the early white ones are smaller, even original fenders differ on the size of the hole for the turn signal. But principal is the same and all. (Well, there was a single bulp version and a very early one with so called "parking light" option).

5. Were there any Amazons stock from the factory with mudguards on the rear fenders like on PV's?

No. On the other hand, what exactly do you mean? Mudguards as like those behind the wheel or those on the front of the rear fender, protecting the fender from splash and stones? No such ones (of course - the rear fender is completely different!).

6. This one might seem silly, but does anyone know of any changes in the tail light of Amazons around 1967? Something about paint on the inside walls?

On the North America market, there was a change in the '68 taillight lenses, early ones had no seperation (other than the red plastic) between brake light and turn signal light - in 68 the red plastic wall between the two where silver sprayed.

Why do you want pictures? (Yes, the obvious answer is you want to see the details, other reasons?)

[helsoffa]

Thanks so much! This is just the information I needed! I've been working for about a year on a survey website to ask owners which type of turnsignal, headlight etc. on his or her Amazon. It's going to have photos to help people pick the different choices, but I'm not trying to steal photos from here. In the case of the early 220 emblem, I've just never seen one, so I wasn't sure if they existed. I figured it was strange that there would be a 121 and 122 emblem before the shield-type came in in 65, but since the 220 came out in 1962, it seemed like there needed to be something for it's early years. Strange that they would change it after the first year, though. I'm not trying to steal photographs, though (though if they are really good, I might ask permission to use them) I'm just trying to get a look at what I need to take a good photograph of. Tack så mycket för information!

[helsoffa]

Sorry, I see you are Danish! Tak! Have you ever heard of very early 220's having an openable rear vent window, like the 1961 and earlier sedans?

[ClassicVolvoShop]

...I've been working for about a year on a survey website to ask owners which type of turnsignal, headlight etc. on his or her Amazon.
It's going to have photos to help people pick the different choices...

Please take no offense in my question - but why are you doing this?
Are you trying to conclude things from this survey, or? What's the point? If owners want to "show" what they have, it's just upload a picture - and there it is.
If you are trying to conclude things like when and on what market etc. etc. - then Volvo has a allready done the job for you back then - and all the info (at least on 99.9% of the facts) are to find in the spare parts catalouges.

What I don't get, is what purpose your survey will serve? - In my view it's pretty wrong to imagine that you will be able to "document history" by peoples choices here 53-40 years later - I dare say that only 0.01% of the Amazons left in the World today are still in their original condition/setup.

[ClassicVolvoShop]

... In the case of the early 220 emblem, I've just never seen one, so I wasn't sure if they existed.

I figured it was strange that there would be a 121 and 122 emblem before the shield-type came in in 65, but since the 220 came out in 1962, it seemed like there needed to be something for it's early years. Strange that they would change it after the first year, though. ...

You confuse me a little here..
First - why not simply take a look in the spare parts catalouges? They are free to access on http://www.gcp.se - here you'll find all the "simple" details like emblems, trim setup etc. etc. - even very detailed information on special chassisnumbers etc.
It's a pretty simple science - all answers are available direct from the source: Volvo.

It's not strange - Volvo intruduced the 220 in '62 - they made only 1400 this year - found out it was a model in demand - took it into the export market in 1963 - and made a clever choice:
Why mess with the allready invested money in product awareness/branding: North America allready knew the 122S - as a 122S - Why try land a 222S - when it was more normal in USA/Canada to say 122S Sedan/Wagon..
So why waste effort on having 4 emblems, when the job was done fine with 2? It's simple business logic.

[ClassicVolvoShop]

Sorry, I see you are Danish! Tak! Have you ever heard of very early 220's having an openable rear vent window, like the 1961 and earlier sedans?

I have no problem with Swedish, so no problem.

No, I have never heard of such - and again I have to say that your questions makes me wonder a bit - that type of question sounds a lot like a "myth" or similar - and why chose to believe in myths when facts are ready and available direct at hand; spare parts catalogues - www.gcp.se

You will find a lot of info if you browse the www.volvoamazonpictures.se site too - you are sort of trying to do, what many have done before you - so why waste time on "myths"?

The only thing that springs to my mind, it's the US accessorie for the 445/210/Duett - where you could have windable side windows installed.

[ClassicVolvoShop]

... I'm not trying to steal photographs, though (though if they are really good, I might ask permission to use them) I'm just trying to get a look at what I need to take a good photograph of. ...

So.. ..you have never seen a 220 emblem.. and need a picture of it, so you know what to take photos of?..

Yes, I was fishing to know if you are aware that it is illegal to "borrow" pictures without permission.

[helsoffa]

Yes, I'm doing it mostly for fun. No offense taken at all! It is, indeed, real information, if not very useful. Yea, the catalogs tell you when most of the changes occur, but some changes aren't documented, especially in the earliest ones.

I definitely don't want to steal photos!

As for the 221 emblem, I ask for a photograph really to know what to photograph. I saw a golden emblem with "220" at a swap-meet last fall. Perhaps it was for some completely different car. I didn't have a camera, unfortunately. I wasn't (I'm still not) exactly sure what to look for or what I was looking at... If I see another possible early 220 badge, I'd like to be more certain it's the one instead of wondering more. The rear vent window was something that I saw in a parts catalog. I've printed out the catalog, but I'm not at home at the moment so I can't see it until tomorrow. Maybe it's a mistake or a typo or I misunderstood it and it means a rubber seal for that long rear window... but it's no harm asking.

Maybe you are right that I should spend more time looking in the parts catalogs for some of these answers, though.

Anyway, my dream is to sort of sift through the statistics and see trends. It sounds kind of lame when I actually type it up like this, but I'd like to see what interesting anomolies come up. It might turn out that almost all of the rear glass reflectors broke and are now replaced by plastic ones. I'm going to ask about both the color code and the current color. Maybe we can see that red Amazons got repainted the most or something correlating with year, location, body-style. A friend told me that owners removed the thin-bar grille (the one that came in after 21,000) and replaced it with the new grille in 1965 to make it look like a newer Amazon. I'd like to know if there are any still like that. I suppose that would depend on whether people acquire an Amazon and try to return it to stock, just keep it as it is, wear it out or customize it. When you get enough data-points, something interesting is bound to show up. I've got the survey feeding into a spreadsheet so I can look at things quickly and find those trends.

I also think it'd be fun an interesting for people to see photographic examples of differences in Amazons right next to each other. In Texas, you don't see many, so when I found my second Amazon, a '61, and compared it with my '64, there were all sorts of cool differences. I was going to just buy the rear doors for the vent windows, but the thing was going to get crushed if I didn't take it... you know how that turned out. Anyway, I looked online a website that would easily show me all the different "phenotypes", as I call them, and tell me when they occured and how much and basically everything I'm now putting in the survey. I didn't find anything comprehensive enough for me (though volvoamazonpictures.se is pretty damn good) There must be some owners who also
think the phenotypes are interesting enough to learn about that they'd go throught the survey. I consider it fun for everyone. I get to study what the Amazon is like and feel like my research is meaningful to more people than just me, and they get a nice, descriptive list of all the possible phenotypes with little blurbs of info. Almost like an Amazon wikipedia in that everyone does a little thing to build up a big pile of knowledge we can all look at.

It'd also be a great resource site for people trying to restore their Amazon to stock! They could just look at the website and see that almost every Amazon (a few outliers from customization) before and after their serial number has, oh, this or that hubcap.

Uploading a picture doesn't work because it's too few points. If all I can see is the paint and a side-view mirror, I can't deduce much.

Yes, most Amazon's aren't totally original, but most are original on most things, so when you get enough Amazon's together, you can learn things.


Between interest in the statistics and interest in the phenotypes, I think it will be fun!

[Amarace]

The 221 emblem looks he same as "Volvo 121", In gold and volvo and 221 together as one emblem, if you have seen a ordinary 121 emblem you will know what it is when you see the 221.

[ClassicVolvoShop]

helsoffa,
You do a good job advocating your intentions - I have no problem with good intentions - the problem I see with your approach to "history" is doing so through a survey. (and somewhat by neglecting that facts you survey about are allready written history).
It is a "scientific fact" that describing history through surveys will produce myths - and even in such a meaningless niché as old Volvo Amazon's there are more than enough myths there is hard to get rid of. (the 5.5 inch rim, seatbelts, 123GT details and so on).

I'm sorry - but you can't convince me, that the huge job you put on yourself will ever be written into history. You'll end up with a list/database of:
- what people would LIKE/LOVE their Amazon to look like,
- what people THINK are true facts about their Amazon,
- what people have HEARD about the Amazon,
- and a hole lot of the ever so repeating myths allready out there.

I'm sorry for my "negative" response - the truth is, I am sad to see you waste your time - instead of using it more efficiently.
It's like the old animal history of the contest between the sparrow and the eagle - of who could fly highest in the sky - the eagle fly as high as possible - and THEN the sparrow sets off from the eagles back! Get it?
Use your efforts and energy where the outcome will serve the best result.

[helsoffa]

Aha! It sounded so lame to say I'd "seen it in a parts catalog", but I've found it now! It's in th VP autoparts catalog on page three, towards the bottom. Part 661810, "Rubberseal, rear door vent window.... 4D/220" only $72.66. Still, I guess it's probably a typo. The rear door would have to be the same as the 4D.

[ClassicVolvoShop]

And as for pictures, sorry to say again - but familiarise yourself with what's allready available before inventing the plate once again..

The -VOLVO-221- emblem looks like the -VOLVO-121- emblem:

[helsoffa]

Thank you for your concern and advice! I'd never thought about Amazon myths. I didn't know there was such a thing. I can definitely see myths popping up about 123's as they're rare enough. People guessing what they might have and then it taking on a life of its own.
Seatbelts and 5.5 rims seem like strange myths. Could you tell me about them just out of curiosity and in case I run into them?

I'd also never thought of a "dream-user". Somebody might put what they want their Amazon to look like. The best I could ever do about that is ask them not to, I suppose. I don't think people would be too confused at what is in their Amazon or answer with what they've heard, though. For any question that I believe is very hard to answer quickly I have an "I don't know" choice if they don't want to check. For aluminum vs. stainless steel parts, I have will have weights listed and an "I don't know". I know it's a stretch of the imagination to see people pulling-off their grille bars or air intake to measure them, but knowing it could be one or the other on their own Amazons might make them curious enough to try.

I hope it might be a way to dispel myths, but you've definitely made me want to "back-up" the survey with any resources I can find. A little blurb link one can click on that says when the parts catalogs say it switched.

But like I said, it's for more reasons than finding out how the cars came originally (it's true, 40-50 years is a long time). Thanks for the visual!